Pretty, Fizzy Paradise

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Sunday, November 05, 2006

An Arrow in a Haystack?

I've got this thing about Green Arrows (and proteges). I like them, but I really only tend to find them interesting in their relationships with other characters. But I have very little interest in reading them on their own.

I've never particularly sought out any of the Arrow books because of this. I like Ollie, Roy, Connor and Mia. I like them a lot. But I like them best in places that aren't "Green Arrow". I like Ollie when interacting with Hal, Kyle, Dinah or the Justice League, but not enough to read him being Mayor. I like Roy best in team books like Titans, Outsiders or JLA, but I've never felt the need to track down his miniseries. I like Connor a lot in pretty much any guest appearance I've seen him in, but I've never really read him on his own. Mia's interesting enough in Teen Titans, and Quiver, but again...

Thus, I have really no real working knowledge base when it comes to Arrow stuff.

Which bothers me, because I've suddenly got the urge to read anything that deals with Ollie and Connor's relationship. I'm particularly interested in Connor's introduction, when the whole Connor-as-Ollie's-son is revealed, and any good father-son moments. I really like reading familial heavy stuff, especially anything "long-lost", so I've decided I'd really like to read it.

My problem is, I'm an Arrow-newbie. There's so many Green Arrow issues out there, over years and years, and it's all scary and intimidating, and I don't know where to look!


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  • At November 05, 2006 11:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'd definitely recommend "Archer's Quest" or even "Quiver" both in TPB.

    "Archer's Quest" is very much a relationship story. Although Roy is supporting character, it has a lot to do w/ Ollie & Connor. Plus it has cameos from the Shade and a fat Catman.

    "Quiver" is also entertaining and you get a bunch of great reaction shots to Ollie's return from the death - from the emotional (Ollie & Dinah) to the humorous (Ollie & Aquaman).

  • At November 05, 2006 12:20 PM, Anonymous David Horenstein said…

    Whatever you do, stay as far away from the "Longbow Hunters" as you possibly can. This the series where the Black Canary was raped and robbed of her powers. An over-rated story that tried to make the character more adult (thus getting rid of the trick arrows).

    If you can get it cheap on Ebay, pick up the Blue Ribbon Digest of Green Arrow. It features some campy (but fun) Silver Age stuff, but it features stories that have Ollie debuting his new costume and how he lost his fortune. You can usually get it for about a buck to five bucks. It's this digest that made me a fan of Green Arrow.

  • At November 05, 2006 3:59 PM, Anonymous gus said…

    Connor's series is pretty good - it's all by Dixon, and it's standard superhero stuff, and connor gets a bit Mary Sue, but it's still exciting. He also deals a lot with family and such. Connor was introduced in issue 0, and then 90-137, Connor's in every issue.

  • At November 05, 2006 8:24 PM, Anonymous Starman Matt Morrison said…

    Time for the Green Arrow expert to work.

    To answer your question, read the following to analyze the Ollie/Connor relationship.

    Green Arrow #0, #90-101. (Original Series)

    Green Arrow: Quiver
    Green Arrow: Sounds of Violence

    Green Arrow: Archer's Quest is a good Ollie/Roy story, but Connor is only mentioned in passing and Mia doesn't appear at all. (Making it a bit of flat as far as a Arrow Family story goes)


    One of the biggest weaknesses to Winick's run is that apart from one Roy takes Connor to a strip club story that really wasn't all that good, he's ignored most of the relationships of the family in favor of more and more action scenes and "kewl" villains like Bullseye and Kingpin - I mean Drakkon and Brick.

    Oh, and regarding the above comment on Longbow Hunters - Mr. Horenstein is ignorant. I've spoken to Mike Grell on several occasions and he confirmed that Dinah was NOT raped in Longbow Hunters. She was tortured and had her throat slit (which did make her lose her powers) but she was far from a helpless maiden in Mike Grell's Green Arrow run. Indeed, she wound up saving Ollie more than a few times when he got in over his head.

  • At November 05, 2006 11:23 PM, Anonymous David Horenstein said…

    Yes, I'm ignorant. I saw a scene where Dinah was brutally beaten, tortured, had her throat slit, and gave the impression that she was raped (her clothes were ripped). Apparently, a lot of other people thought that too.

    And, someone with the ability to rip steel with her voice and who is an expert in martial arts, had her head handed to her by a couple of low level thugs.

    But, silly me, I'm ignorant. Black Canary was shown to be anything but a fair maiden in the Longbow Hunters. Um, I can't think of any that took place within the mini-series I mentioned, but then I'm ignorant.

    Plus, that always happens to male heroes. Batman, Daredevil, Captain America, etc.

    Of course, in the Longbow Hunters, Black Canary wasn't capable. But, I'm ignorant.

  • At November 05, 2006 11:54 PM, Anonymous skullduggery said…

    The weak portrayal of Dinah aside, if you want to read an interesting and quality written arc about Ollie, then I would definitely recommend you do check out Longbow Hunters.

  • At November 06, 2006 12:00 AM, Anonymous Starman Matt Morrison said…


    How silly of me. Of course you aren't ignorant.

    I only spoke with Mike Grell on several occasions and outright asked him if Dinah had been raped (among other questions regarding the series) and reported that even though her clothes were ripped (after a violent struggle, no less) and was tortured by a rather sick thug who got off on cutting people instead of the more obvious pleasures to be found in a tied-up attractive woman, that there was no rape.

    I mean, if you had read the story that followed up Longbow Hunters (which, from all appearances, you haven't), Ollie and Dinah both went through therapy for the trauma they went through and the word "rape" was never mentioned in all of the things that happened to Dinah.

    Now, granting that in a lot of stories, anytime a woman does get beat-up she also gets raped and that such things rarely do happen to male heroes, I can see why you would think that Dinah had been raped.

    But she wasn't. Mike Grell said so. The artwork never shows an actual rape. Just torture. The R-word is never used in any of the issues of Mike Grell's Green Arrow run following Longbow Hunters where Ollie and Dinah discussed the incident.

    Yes. A superhero couple discussing a trauma instead of just moving on from it in an issue. What a concept.

    Of course, maybe I'm ignorant. Because I just assumed after talking to Mike Grell that with him being the person who wrote and drew Longbow Hunters that... well, maybe he would know and that he had no reason to lie.

  • At November 06, 2006 2:04 AM, Anonymous david brothers said…

    "kewl" villains like Bullseye and Kingpin - I mean Drakkon and Brick.

    Oh, man! You know that feeling you get when something is tickling your brain but you can't quite place why? This is that feeling. I'd never made that connection.

    Kalinara: If you want a pretty good legacy look at Green Arrow, check out Grant Morrison's run on JLA, specifically the American Dreams and Rock of Ages stories. Both feature Connor in a mid-level role, not quite starring. American Dreams shows what happens when he tries to fully step into his father's shoes and work his bag of tricks ("Boxing glove arrow?"), and Rock of Ages is worth it for Connor sporting his dad's trademark goatee alone.

    Also, it has Darkseid.

    I'm seconding the "Avoid Winick, read Dixon" advice, though it only appears that the GA/GL Connor/Kyle crossover is traded.

    In better news, though, Andy Diggle and Jock, the team behind the outstanding "The Losers" is doing Green Arrow Year One next year. Just going off Jock's covers alone it'll be great, but adding in Andy "Adam Strange" Diggle and they've got my three bucks for certain.

  • At November 06, 2006 1:57 PM, Blogger SallyP said…

    Can't tell you much about Green Arrow stories, but on a side note, have you been watching "Smallville"? The guy who plays Ollie is just gorgeous! He has such a Joe Staton jaw line!

  • At November 06, 2006 11:08 PM, Anonymous David Horenstein said…

    You could have easily stated that I was incorrect, there was no reason to hurl insults, which you did.

    I have nothing against Mike Grell. Warlord remains one of my favorite titles and I loved his run on Legion of Superheroes.

    And, the simple fact is, Diana never should have been in that situation. Considering that she's trained with Batman (both being League members, you know she would have worked out with him), those thugs never should have been able to touch her.

    And, I still recommend getting the Blue Ribbon Digest from DC. It can be gotten fairly cheap off Ebay (it even one or two Mike Grell Green Arrow stories).

  • At November 06, 2006 11:54 PM, Blogger Green Arrow said…

    If you read only one of the stories suggested, I reckon it should be 'Archer's Quest'.

    I liked it - I've not read enough of the other suggestions to say that it is the best (but I've read enough to say that it is not the worst). But it very neatly fits what you're after: it's all about Ollie's relationships, especially Roy and Connor, but also Hal and Barry Allen.

    btw - I enjoy your blog. Keep it up!


  • At November 07, 2006 7:29 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Thanks for the recommendations, guys!

  • At November 07, 2006 8:11 PM, Anonymous "Starman" Matt Morrison said…


    I'm sorry if you were insulted. Were I trying to insult you, I would have called you stupid - not ignorant. I don't think of ignorance as being a negative trait - merely a condition to be treated.

    And I don't care HOW good a martial artist you are - given sufficent numbers, anyone can be over-powered.

  • At July 20, 2010 4:58 PM, Anonymous viagra online said…

    You can usually get it for about a buck to five bucks. It's this digest that made me a fan of Green Arrow.


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