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Sunday, June 11, 2006

The Damned List B Side, Progress Report

Well, we thought we'd keep you up to date with a brief version of what we've got so far for the lists. Her list is here.

This is a rough list so far, not the final product

We intend to add details/context information (for better analysis and comparison) and many of these are still unconfirmed. If you know of some we've missed. Please tell us.

As a reminder the full category list is Here
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Actual:

Apollo (Authority 14)
Bigby Wolf (Fables 14)
Bruce Banner (Hulk: Future Imperfect)
Clark Kent/Superman (Action 592-593)
Dick Grayson/Nightwing (Nightwing 93)
Foggy Nelson (false pretenses, ref. needed)
Gim Allon/Colossal Boy (false pretenses: ref needed)
Grant Emerson/Damage (Titans 17-19)
Guy Gardner/Warrior (Warrior 39)
Hawley Griffin/Invisible Man (League of Extraordinary Gentlemen v2 #5)
Jack Knight/Starman (Starman 16)
Jo Nah/Ultra Boy (false pretences: ref needed)
John Constantine (Swamp Thing v2, 27)
Johnny Storm/The Human Torch (false pretenses, ref. needed)
Kon-El/Conner Kent/Superboy (Statuatory, ref. needed)
Mikaal Tomas/Starman ("Stars My Destination")
Namor (false pretences: ref needed)
Oliver Queen (ref needed)
Peter Parker (Spider Man/Power Pack PSA)
Simon Williams/Wonder Man (ref needed)
Swamp Thing (Swamp Thing vol 6)
Tom Strong (#4)
Tom Strong (#7)
Vril Dox II/Brainiac (ref needed)
Wade Wilson/Deadpool (false pretenses: ref. needed)

Attempted:

Bruce Banner/Hulk (Rampaging Hulk 23)
Jack Knight/Starman (Stars My Destination)
John Constantine (Tainted Love)
Wolverine (ref. needed)


Implied/Subtextual:

Andreas Struker/Swordsman (ref. needed)
Bruce Wayne/Batman (Gothic storyline)
Jason Todd/Robin (Dark Knight Returns)
Guy Gardner/Warrior (Warrior 22)
Lobo (Hitman/Lobo One-shot)
Maxwell Dillon/Electro (ref. needed)
Roy Harper/Arsenal (Outsiders 17)
Sanderson Hawkins/Sand (JSA 18)
Scott Summers/Cyclops (ref. needed)
Todd Rice/Obsidian (ref needed)

Symbolic:

Guy Gardner/Green Lantern (GL v2 124)
Guy Gardner/Warrior (Warrior 25-referring to GL v3/JLI period)
Hal Jordan/Green Lantern (GLC 213)
Hal Jordan/Green Lantern (Parallax Storyline)
Jason Blood (Demon #0)
John Stewart/Green Lantern (Mosaic)
Kyle Rayner/Green Lantern (Green Lantern 131)
Rokk Krinn/Cosmic Boy (Legion of Super Heroes v4, 96)
Sanderson Hawkins/Sand (Creature in the Velvet Cage)
Sanderson Hawkins/Sand (DC Comics Presents 47)
Sanderson Hawkins/Sand (JSA 11-12)
Scott Summers (Apocalypse Storyline)

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Now as I said, this is NOT the concrete list. I haven't tracked-down/confirmed all of these. We'll keep you guys posted.

I'm also considering adding a perpetrator list as well for characters like the Joker, Dementor, Johnny Sorrow, Starfox, (possibly) Gambit. But we'll see about that. Could be interesting though.

posted by kalinara @ 8:28 PM  

21 Comments:

  • At June 11, 2006 9:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Symbolic: Jack Hawksmoor's backstory, especially because I think it was implied at one point that there was castration involved.

     

  • At June 12, 2006 12:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Max Dillon? I only recall that being implied in Marvel Knights Spider-Man #2, where he said to a shapeshifting hooker something "new" happened to him in prison and he wanted to try something other than the superheroines she was changing into.

     

  • At June 12, 2006 12:04 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    ben: Thanks, I'll look into that.

    dan: Well, like I said, this is still a work in progress and he's one of the ones that I need to confirm. I could have sworn I heard about another, more concrete example. But if I can't find it, I'll move him down or off. Thanks!

     

  • At June 12, 2006 7:50 AM, Blogger Madeley said…

    I assume Wade Wilson/Deadpool's on the list as he was seduced by Typhoid Mary while she was disguised as Siryn. If so, this happened off-panel between Deadpool Vol. 1 #12 and #13.

     

  • At June 12, 2006 7:52 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Yep. Thanks for the issue number!

     

  • At June 12, 2006 7:55 AM, Blogger Madeley said…

    Oh, and I don't how specific the citations need to be, but Batman: Gothic was originally published in Legends of the Dark Knight #6-10.

     

  • At June 12, 2006 2:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I don't know how inclusive you want this list to be but you might need to add the Marvel hero Longshot who's associated with the X-men. It's, at the very least, strongly implied that he uses his good luck power to attract women and it's also explicitly stated that he can't use his powers for anything bad/wrong/evil which implies that him using his mutant superpower for attracting women is good/right. It's, at the very least, strongly implied that he used his power to attract both Dazzler and Rogue. Longshot and Dazzler then married and she became pregnant. I don't think readers know for sure what happened but many fans seem to believe Dazzler miscarried. Dazzler and Longshot are no longer together although whether or not they're legally married is anyone's guess.

    You can find confirmation in this wikipedia article (which I didn't write or edit):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longshot

    Under the heading "Powers and abilities" it says:
    "He has a star shaped scar on his left eye from being branded, the scar is only visible (glowing brightly) when Longshot uses his powers. He was genetically engineered and augmented by magical means to have certain superhuman abilities. The mystical augmentation gave him the ability to affect probability fields through psionic means in order to give himself "good luck" in his activities. This ability is tied into the positive aspects of his personality: should he attempt to use his powers for a selfish or evil act, or should he give up hope, his powers will fail to function or even backfire, giving him bad luck.
    Longshot has demonstrated some degree of supernatural attractiveness which tends to compel women to fall in love with him upon first sight, most notably the X-Men's Rogue and Dazzler."

    I can find specific references for some of the above but I don't have all the comics which cover Longshot.

    I suppose I'd better go and post this on Ragnell's blog too.

     

  • At June 12, 2006 2:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Swamp Thing gets raped in issue #60 of the second run (during the Alan Moore era).

    You got a bit confused about the two occasions Tom Strong gets raped. It's revealed in issue #7 that he got raped between panels in #4. He then gets raped again on a completely different occasion in #23.

     

  • At June 12, 2006 2:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Oh, and Herr Starr in Preacher gets raped in #14. As he's a villain, it's played for laughs and it's implied that the incident leaves him unable to reach orgasm except by being painfully buggered.

     

  • At June 12, 2006 4:37 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    hunter: Thanks!

    spiralsheep: Ack, that's...is that a Marvel thing?

    phil: Thanks! You're right, I did get confused. I'll fix that.

    And...um...ack. I'll make sure to add it.

     

  • At June 13, 2006 11:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "...is that a Marvel thing?"

    The list of Longshot, Gambit and Starfox looks bad for Marvel doesn't it? But those three characters are very different. Longshot was originally written as the lead hero in Ann Nocenti's mini-series called Longshot which was a satire on the entertainment media and was set in the Mojoverse not the Marvelverse. He was a satire on the handsome, charismatic, alpha-male, tv-stars who play all-action heroes who always get the girl. In the story Longshot had been genetically engineered to fulfil that stereotype. When Longshot then crossed over into the mainstream Marvel universe it was, at first, in the kind of cracktastically humorous stories which appeared in annuals as light relief from all the doom and gloom in the ongoing series. He was an innocent abroad. He was always out of place in the Marvelverse stories imo and his storylines centred around the Mojoverse. It's at least strongly implied that he used his mutant good-luck superpower (or his power used him... it didn't always appear to be wholly under his conscious control because it was part of the way he was genetically engineered to be attractive to tv viewers) to attract Dazzler and Rogue and he later followed through on a relationship with Dazzler BUT it's in character for Daz and Rogue to be attracted to handsome, charismatic, alpha-males with star-quality like Longshot. His good-luck power didn't have any apparent lasting effect of attracting Kitty, Storm, or Psylocke because he wasn't their type and their finding him wildly attractive would've been out of character. So it's possible to argue from within the story that the attractive effect which his power has on Dazzler isn't any more problematic than the effect which Brad Pitt, or whoever, has on the women he meets. Longshot's power of attraction could, of course, be read as something darker in which case Longshot himself is a victim of his genetic engineer Mojo who designs and trains Longshot to be what he is. Mojo abuses Longshot and his power and subsequently both Longshot and the women he attracts also become victims of Longshot's power as designed by Mojo. Different readers could reasonably have either of those opinions or one somewhere in between.

    Gambit has always looked to me as if someone decided they wanted to write a Longshot-power-style character in the mainstream Marvelverse, waved their magic pen, and ta-da Gambit appeared.

    Starfox is a different matter and is imo clearly an abuser to one degree or another within his storylines, however, it's noticeable to me from a meta point of view that Starfox is being punished by the writers because his character was designed as a girlie-man. "Fox" is, in Anglo culture, a descriptor usually applied to women. The SE Asian fox-spirits who Starfox resembles in many ways are usually female. The power which makes him stand out among Marvelverse superbeings is emotional manipulation which is a form of power-over which is usually attributed to women and represented as dishonest, underhand, disreputable, insert-the-usual-insults-here (whereas physical manipulation through the use of power-over, i.e. violence and the threat of violence, is attributed to men and represented as honest, open-handed, heroic). Male "heroes" who have "heroic" physical powers are faced with ethical temptations which they overcome because they're strong and "heroic" (i.e. masculine) whereas Starfox with his feminised girlie-man emotional powers appears to be being written as being faced with ethical temptations to which he gives in because he's weak and villainous. In conclusion: "real"-men=good while girlie-men=bad according to comics writers (I bet that generalisation could spawn its own long back up list).

    If the lists are counting Kitty Pryde's near-miss "forced marriage" with Caliban in Uncanny X-men 179 as abuse of her then you should add Caliban to your list as another "hero"-perpetrator.

     

  • At June 13, 2006 3:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Miraclekid (or was it boy) from Miracleman (I don't remember the exact issue, either #13 or #14).

    And, I forget the name of the captured hero from Empire.

    Any side kick that appeared in Brat Pack.

     

  • At June 13, 2006 11:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I gotta disagree on the "writers are slagging on Starfox because he's a girly-man". IMHO, it's the opposite; he's a male fantasy that was ignored for a long time, and now that the (very slightly) more enlightened writers of today realized this, he's being treated as you'd actually treat someone who manipulated you into sexing them.

    Agree on the rest, tho.

     

  • At June 13, 2006 11:17 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    spiralsheep and ununnilium: thanks for the perspective, guys. I don't dislike Marvel, but for a brief second that seemed like an awfully suggestive trend. Eek. Glad to know it's handled better than it sounds.

    david: thanks, I'll check them out.

     

  • At June 19, 2006 4:58 PM, Blogger Barry said…

    Does the mind control romp the Purple Girl did on Northstar back in the early days of Alpha Flight count as implied?

    Not sure where that would go, but the wrongness of it does get stated in the story.

    Alpha Flights second volume had a mind coercive character called Murmur that had some questionable instances.

     

  • At June 19, 2006 5:01 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    I think that definitely counts, though I'll have to see the instance in question before I know where to put it. Sounds like Symbolic, though. :-) Thanks.

     

  • At July 13, 2006 9:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I stumbled across this list via Google, read the back posts, and had a few comments. :)

    spiralsheep - While I agree that Longshot's powers are suspect enough to put him on the list, I don't think he should be condemned yet. I'm not sure how luck could control minds. However, to anyone that has ever been on a date we all know that luck plays a role: the wine chosen is excellent, the lighting is fantastic, the weather is perfect...etc. These factors impact attraction. I leave it to the ladies putting together this wonderful list to decide if this is symbolic sexual assault or as innocent as make-up (or likely somewhere in-between).

    Also, you might consider listing the genders of the perpetrators. Rape from a male to a male is often a completely different animal than rape of a male by a female. The former can be an act of homophobia, while both can be an act of power and subjugation.

    Keep up the great work!
    (I do not have a Blog here but I have one on temporary hiatus on LiveJournal: Listens2Kids)

     

  • At July 13, 2006 4:32 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    :-) Yep, you're right. On the full list, we'll have context information, including genders of the perp. :-)

     

  • At July 26, 2006 12:23 AM, Blogger notintheface said…

    Here's an interesting possible case, because the true perpetrator here is a ROBOT.

    http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/310/

     

  • At September 12, 2006 2:39 AM, Blogger Your Obedient Serpent said…

    Your recent comments about the '90s Avengers cartoon reminded me of two characters who each need to be on the List, as both victims and prepetrators.

    When Hank Pym was in the throes of a major psychological breakdown, including severe amnesia and schizoid adoption of another personality, Janet Van Dyne took advantage of his condition to maneuver him into marriage -- that's at the very least "Symbolic Rape", and more along the lines of "Forced Marriage".

    It's definitely "False Pretenses", at the very least, though the casual, shallow way she treated the whole situation as a big practical joke not only on Hank, but on the rest of the Avengers, suggests a harsher interpretation.

    Hank, in turn, subjected his wife to increasing verbal and emotional abuse, culminating in actual physical violence -- and, like the classic abused spouse, she took him back more than once.

    Their willful participation in this circle of abuse doesn't make them any less culpable.

     

  • At September 12, 2006 2:45 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    I just read those issues in fact (the marriage ones). That was...interesting. In a WTF manner...

     

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