Pretty, Fizzy Paradise

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Friday, May 26, 2006

Immediate Reaction to X3, sans spoilers.

Just saw X-Men: The Last Stand. I'm gonna wait a few days to do a real review, but I will say one thing about it. It was *horrible*.

The stuff I *thought* I'd hate were the least offensive parts of the movie. The plot made no sense (even for a comic movie), the characterization was awful, and the *ending*, the way the "good guys" won. There was no moral victory there.

Even though I'm not a Marvel fan in general, I was pissed off. My friend who's a big X-Men fan was *furious*. I'm fine with any and all divergences from the comic. But just plain bad writing is unforgivable.

And the writing was absolutely terrible. I think it's time those writers learned that hands are a privilege, not a right!

And I'm not completely sure I don't think it was incredibly sexist if not misogynistic either.

Oh and stay to the end of the credits, there's a final bit to see that would suck to miss.

There were some neat fight scenes though, just the restsucked.

Damn, that's two hours of my life I won't get back. To think, I could have been watching the Fantastic Four movie. Blechh.

(ETA: Spoilers are discussed in commentary, so until you've seen the movie, if you plan to and care about spoilers, please don't read.)

43 Comments:

  • At May 26, 2006 6:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The movie? DEJA VU,ALL OVER AGAIN...

     
  • At May 26, 2006 6:43 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    heh!

     
  • At May 26, 2006 7:53 AM, Blogger Brett said…

    Just curious, did you like the first two?

     
  • At May 26, 2006 10:37 AM, Blogger CalvinPitt said…

    Well, that makes me glad I wasn't going to go then.

    I should have known. Ebert gave this 3 out of 4 stars, which is a pretty good sign with comic book movies that it isn't good.

    The guy gave Daredevil 3 stars for pete's sake!

     
  • At May 26, 2006 11:53 AM, Anonymous Dan Coyle said…

    I've gotten 100 pages into Claremont's novelization... and... what the hell happened to Cyclops???

     
  • At May 26, 2006 1:27 PM, Blogger The Dane said…

    Interestingly, Berardinelli, who gave the movie 3 out of 4 has this to say about the post credit sequence: "X-Men: The Last Stand provides a post credit sequence (of about 20 seconds) for those who want to stay. My advice, however, is to leave as soon as the credits start rolling. The movie works better without this scene, and it could be argued that this is the film's biggest misstep. I wish I hadn't hung around to see it, and I think most who miss it will have a better overall opinion of the film than those who stick it out. It doesn't play fair with the audience, and cheapens one of the film's most poignant elements."

    I have yet to see the film for myself (maybe in the next couple weeks or so...), but as its a comic movie, I don't have especially high hopes for it.

     
  • At May 26, 2006 1:52 PM, Blogger Bhotanni said…

    The best part of this movie was the crowd reactions at the midnight showing. I understand what they were trying to do with each character's moral ethics, but they didn't spend enough time on developing it. One or two short snippits with one character telling another character of some moral debate doesn't really establish a momentum to carry a movie.

    It's sad that the Fox Kid's show from the 90s handled both plots of this movie 10 times better.

    The only character that wasn't OCC was Scott. He could have saved the movie for me. But alas he didn't. Aside from a few fan service scenes that I went "OOH SFX EYE CANDY!!" I seriously regret sacrificing much needed sleep.

     
  • At May 26, 2006 3:11 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    brett: I thought they were decent. One centered a bit too much on two characters only (Wolverine and Rogue) that I wasn't fond of, but it was pretty solid. As was two.

    This wasn't.

    calvin: Heh. It's bad.

    dan: ...yeah.

    the dane: It doesn't just cheapen that aspect of the movie, it also completely violates the ethics of the character(s) as portrayed in the beginning of the movie! When I say there's no moral victory, I *mean* it.

    bhotanni: Yeah. The Fox show's Dark Phoenix Saga was brilliant. This...wasn't.

     
  • At May 26, 2006 7:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I liked it on some levels. It was entertaining, and I liked some moments and characters, but it did leave me with an overall bad taste in my mouth.

    *SPOILERS*

    Jean was completely mishandled. Even when she was supposedly out of control, she was still following Magneto's every order. She didn't do much of anything until the end, which didn't end up amounting to much. She came across as a very weak character in this movie.

    Also, Magneto starting to get his powers back at the end took away anything that the "cure" should have meant, and made the entire movie seem like a complete waste of time.

     
  • At May 26, 2006 7:21 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    (spoilers.)

    Not to mention the question of why the hell were the X-Men in the last battle anyway. Sure Magneto's side is scary, but the other side was clearly defying ethics too...

    But of course they give them roundabout justification with all the killing by Magneto's men, and having the government come to its senses randomly.

    Egads. Not to mention both the killing by Storm and Logan, as well as the forced curing of Magneto completely (AND the end scene) defied any ethics the characters had. Which pissed me off the most.

     
  • At May 26, 2006 9:32 PM, Anonymous carla said…

    Why, OH WHY, do people have it out for Cyclops?
    WHY?

     
  • At May 26, 2006 9:55 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Honestly, he's my favorite (movie or comic or Ultimate) but I was so glad they killed him off.

    It meant he was free from the character assassination of this dreck.

     
  • At May 26, 2006 10:40 PM, Blogger Jon said…

    So... uhm... if Wolverine could, you know, stab Jean with his claws, why couldn't he stick her with one of the thousands of vials of the cure hanging about?

    And why not just punch Magneto in the back of the head? Why undermine your already ridiculously muddled morals?

    And would it killed them to've said, like, "oh, Nightcrawler's buggered off to priest school" or something? I mean, give me a reason the man isn't there other than "Alan Cumming wanted more money or had the sense to read the script beforehand."

    But I've gotta say, Ratner wasn't the problem. It was competently directed, the script was just really weak.

     
  • At May 26, 2006 10:42 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Yeah, I asked that too.

    Also, why bother killing Scott at all when Xavier's death upstaged it and served the same purpose?

    Though it did save him from being in that awful thing anymore.

    And I agree, even the best director in the world couldn't have saved that script.

     
  • At May 27, 2006 7:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    For some reasons, I liked the protests and scenes showing the mutant subculture. I especially liked the one in the church (I think it was a church). I liked the futile political squabbling and infighting. The fact that their best idea, before Magneto showed up, was to form a committee and write letters, rang true to me for some reason. There was a certain realism to those scenes that was lacking in the rest of the movie.

    I also liked the fact that the background mutants represented a wide variety of people, with different ages and ethnicities; not just pretty 20-30 year olds and/or monstrous freaks,with no in between.

    That sort of gave me a thought about a sort of X-Men elseworlds I'd like to see; a non-action based story where the mutant rights movement mirrors the civil-rights movement of the 60's. I realize there are already a bunch of parallels, but all the superheroics and the idea of the X-Men being a private army sort of gets in the way of that idea.

     
  • At May 27, 2006 12:32 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    I have to admit, some of those scenes *were* pretty cool. In a better movie I'd have found them fascinating. In this...not so much.

     
  • At May 27, 2006 1:29 PM, Anonymous ingvild said…

    What got to me (among numerous other things) was the ending with Hank being named ambassador. I mean, yeah, that's a huge step in the right direction - but after the events of that movie? Never gonna happen. The public doesn't know about the cure being loaded into weapons. They just know (maybe) that five nice mutants fought an army of bad mutants - and that's if the X-Men are *lucky* with how the media portray it. Naming an obvious mutant ambassador after that would be political suicide.

     
  • At May 27, 2006 1:32 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Honestly I think it was the same sort of thing as Spike(?) suddenly killing the Doctor or Magneto ordering Juggernaut to kill Leech. A justification for the X-Men to be in on that fight at all. They needed a "happy" ending to justify all that havoc (versus trying to actually keep order)...

    (Really, why the hell would Magneto kill Leech, he'd want to *use* him! Possibly study him to figure out how to reverse the cure. Not kill him)

     
  • At May 27, 2006 5:40 PM, Blogger GamerGuy said…

    Best comics movie I've seen, only barely beating out Spider-Man 2. Sorry, y'all are *nuts*. The people at the theater for the showing I was in went nuts, clapping and cheering when it was over.

     
  • At May 27, 2006 5:47 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Well it depends on what standards you're using. :-)

    If you like effects, acting, and cool fight scenes best, it's awesome.

    If you like a coherent, well thought out story, with character motivations that make sense, narrative construction that flows, and emotional involvement, it's terrible.

    :-) I don't mind a weak story (I liked Fantastic Four after all) but this wasn't just weak, it was abyssmal.

     
  • At May 28, 2006 9:51 PM, Anonymous Toby S. said…

    I was the only person in the theater who busted out laughing at the line "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch!"

    How could somebody be tuned in enough to add that line but totally miss all the other character elements?

    And really, Storm needs to shut the hell up about "nothing's wrong with you, baby." Booo Halle Berry.

     
  • At May 28, 2006 9:54 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    ...honestly, I thought it was cheesy.

    In the end though, Storm pissed me off more because she's the only one of the strong women from the previous movie who wasn't depowered, made into a jealous twit, or driven insane. But it's kinda portrayed that it's because she's Xavier's acolyte.

    And then when it's finally her chance to lead, who does it? Wolverine.

    And yeah, she should shut up. Talking to the girl that *can't touch anyone*...hmph

     
  • At May 29, 2006 2:32 AM, Blogger STBD said…

    Agreed, the film was bad. Not horrendous, but bad, and possibly worse than bad because it could have been so good. Melodrama is not emotion, and action for the sake of action is just motion and noise, which is where comics get their "bad rap" in the first place.

    I'm really surprised the purists haven't taken Marvel to task for casting what appears to be a very Irish (or other "Gentile" backround) actress as Kitty, when the comics made a point to indicate she was Jewish. I thought she did as good a job as anyone (except Angel, who was criminally underused and appeared to be the best actor in the film), but you'd think someone would have raised that issue by now.

    As for "moral" victories, what constitutes morality in a comic book movie these days? (Or any movie, for that matter?)

     
  • At May 29, 2006 2:51 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    The first two movies managed the moral victory well enough, I thought.

    As for Kitty's Jewishness, well, to be fair, it's not always immediately discernable in a physical sense. As long as she inherits Judaism from her mother, her dad could be pretty much anything, which is probably why no one minds the ethnicity.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 3:24 AM, Blogger The Dane said…

    Confession time: I've just returned from seeing the movie with two ladies who (not being comic readers) know nothing about the X-Men save for what they've seen in the first two movies, and all three of us enjoyed ourselves at least as much as we expected.

    Sure the dialogue was crap, but then, it being a comic movie, we expected that. My companions for the evening actually enjoyed the moral ambiguity presented in the characters as it was probably a better reflection of the kinds of moral questions that would actually be faced in such circumstances.

    Really, I'm not sure how you could complain about them using the "cure" to stop Magneto. It really doesn't seem at odds with Wolverine's moral character in the film (nor even with Beast's). As he slaughters high double digits throughout, I was surprised that he didn't take the next logical step and seperate Magneto from his head once the man was rendered powerless. Plus, how often do we see in fiction, protagonists faced with extreme moral decisions that that grain against previously vocalized stances? Pretty often.

    I'm not sure why you thought it was so hard to follow. My companions got everything except for why Nightcrawler (a.k.a. the blue guy with the weird marks on his face) wasn't in it.

    I don't think it was as good as the second film but as far as the comic book movies I've seen, it wasn't so bad. For what it was, I'd give it around 3 stars out of 4 - better than average but far from great. Not a bad way to spend a matinee.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 3:27 AM, Blogger The Dane said…

    Oh yeah, and the victory was definitely Pyrrhic. But that sort of strikes me as very X-Mennish. They win, but at a loss to their humanity - which seems to make them all the more human.

    Of course, now I'm romanticizing them.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 3:37 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Well, it's good to get a dissenting opinion. :-)

    I still hate it though. Misogynistic (Not a single one of the kickass women makes it through this one without getting depowered (Mystique, Rogue), insane (Jean), randomly bitchy (Rogue) and being utterly ineffectual (Wolverine was leading instead of Storm!)

    In reasoning that seems very similar to the replacing Wonder Woman with Black Canary in the JLA, both the X-Men's young, innocent female mutant and Magneto's main female lackey were replaced by characters who only had gender in common.

    Terrible movie. :-)

     
  • At May 29, 2006 6:28 AM, Blogger The Dane said…

    Misogynistic?

    Jean Grey goes insane and dies.*
    Xavier gets atomized.
    Mystique gets depowered.
    Magneto gets depowered.
    Rogue rids herself of a nightmare power.
    Cyclops gets atomized.
    Storm takes over the school.
    And Wolverine spends at least two thirds of the films on his back and at the mercy of his opponents.

    I dunno, seems like the men have worse. I think you're looking at things with those misogynist-coloured glasses again. The movie seemed to pour the hate on everybody pretty well. Maybe its misanthropic.

    *note: this is actually the only thing that actually seemed to have to happen in the film.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 10:46 AM, Anonymous Toby S. said…

    Cheesy, yes, but still funny.

    I heard somewhere that Cyclops was supposed to be filling the Storm role, but Halle Berry put her foot down demanding to be a central character.

    Wouldn't that final scene make a lot more sense with Cyclops? Wouldn't saying "there's nothing wrong with you" mean more coming from the guy who can't open his eyes without blasting?

    It was a fun movie, sure, but I would have liked to see Singer finish the trilogy.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 2:16 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    the Dane:

    I'd agree except for the fact that while all the bad stuff happens to the men, they at least get to do something. Xavier, Wolverine, Ice-Man, Magneto all play significant roles to the plot.

    Rogue's loss of a nightmare power was understandable. Except it was written as though her jealousy was her primary motivation. Which was ridiculous. We didn't get any powerful emotional scenes from her about this choice, the most we got was her glowering out the window at Kitty and Bobby.

    Magneto is depowered but with hints that he at least is getting it back.

    We find out that the competent, intelligent Jean Grey from the first two movies is due to Xavier's tampering, not her own ability or strength.

    Storm leads the school? Then why does Wolverine give the actual orders and make the inspiring speeches.

    Mystique gets associated with the most awful sexist tripe I've heard. The "She was so beautiful" and "Hell hath no fury" lines made me grit my teeth.

    And Jean? For all her power, she spends the movie standing there doing nothing. She's supposed to be Magneto's ultimate weapon, but she doesn't even do that until the battle's over. Then it's mass murder time and then an undignified death.

    They took a character that destroyed planets and reduced her to seducing Logan and begging him to kill her. The Phoenix could kill *herself* damnit.

    And then there was the apparent only one female character of an archetype getting to do something. Mystique gets traded for Callisto. Rogue for Kitty.

    Sorry, I don't usually fling this accusation lightly, but to me, the movie was *incredibly* misogynistic.

    toby s: Cyclops would have looked better speaking Storm's lines with his own power. Would have given his own death so much more impact too.

    There were some great scenes but it was embroiled in utter tripe. Which makes me sad because the movie could have been brilliant.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 4:23 PM, Anonymous Toby S. said…

    I will give props for inventive uses of phasing - I particularly liked the bit where Kitty let the guy run through her and then slammed his ass to the ground. Phasing would be a horrifically effective combat power if somebody with a nasty mind got ahold of it - I feel like it's been done, but I can't remember where.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 4:29 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    I agree. And I think Excalibur had some pretty nifty uses for the ability. That was one of the (few) good points of the movie.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 4:53 PM, Blogger The Dane said…

    I dunno, it might just be attributed to the popularity of characters. Wolverine, of course, gets the best speeches because he's the reason 90% of anyone got into X-Men in the first place and the only X-character to run a successful solo series. If you think Storm got short-shrifted, imagine what it's like to be Cyclops. The poor kid played a relatively inconsequential role in all three movies, much like Storm, because despite the principality of his character, the first two films were much more about Wolverine and Rogue (Rogue??) than anyone else. In the first film, nobody does any character development apart from Logan and Rogue and I suppose a little from Magneto. In the second one, you get a little from the same two with the new addition of Bobby and Nightcrawler.

    In each of these movies, the established X-Men are not the focus because they are established. Therefore there's really no development for Cyclops, Jean, Storm, or Beast. They don't really need it because the movies aren't really about them. The third one is little more ambiguous about who it's about, but I think it could be seen as either a movie about Wolverine or a movie about mutants generally. Probably the latter is a closer bet, as the film takes a lot of its time looking at how the spectrum of mutantkind reacts to the availability of a power damper drug.

    Jean is one of two McGuffins in the film (the other being The Cure, which as we see isn't really a cure at all). Now you can be upset that they used a strong female character as something as trite as a McGuffin if you want, but I don't think its necessarily (or even probably) misogynistic to use her that way. I think the film would have been more interesting had they developed her as a character more, but I don't think misogyny is yet synonymous with poor writing. Still, at least they're adequately reflecting their source material on that note, as Dark Phoenix was little more than a McGuffin the first time around as well (and if I recall, she begged Wolverine to kill her then too, in a moment of sanity).

    I understand why each of the male characters you mention (X, Logan, Bobby, and Magneto) each got the story focus they did and don't think it has to do with anything so sexist as you portray. I think it's obvious that X and Magneto play their stereotyped roles because they are and always have been the heavies, the two idealogical ends that pivot on the fulcrum of the mutant question. So, as rehashed as it is, you almost have to have the two of them for it to be an X-Men movie. Kinda like Spider-Man with the been-ther-done-that question of power and responsibility. Wolverine because, hey, Wolverine. Bobby gets showtime because his character began developing in X2 and they needed to try to get him to the front (along with more facetime for Colossus and Kitty) so if there's an X4 they'll have somewhere to go - as most of the real X-Men probably won't sign on for a fourth.

    I'm betting this is why Rogue is temporarily getting written out. I think their handling of Rogue was the biggest flaw of the film because if you're going to write a film about a tough moral question, at least explore the thoughts of one who very mixed up in the center of that question. My guess is that there were sweeping cuts of stuff that would have actually been interesting to see. The film was waaaaaay compressed. And so I don't doubt that half the stuff labelled "Rogue" fell by the side to make room for characters who would more likely appear in a third sequel. I did, however, like the fact that she really did go through with dumping her powers (however short-lived that dumping may be) and that she came back to the mansion as essentially human.

    A note here: just as Magneto's power suppression is weakening, I suspect it's the same with all the "cured" mutants. Worthington Labs (or whatever it was called) had done no live and long-term testing on the cure (if Warren was to be the first to receive the serum). It's not hard to see that something based on Leech's power would not be a onetime-forever drug but that such gene suppression would require regular dosing. Therefore, if Magneto is getting his power back, than so is Rogue.

    You'll be happy to know that I did find the "Hell hath no fury" line to be sexist. I didn't think the "She was so beautiful" line to be sexist at all; but rather, it was horribly racist and reveals well the depth of Magneto's depravity. He shows himself no better than his Nazi captors. He is every bit the racist that Hitler was, but more likely worse because his racism and genocidal tendancies are not born out of a need for power but out of a true sense of entitlement. That Mystique should be so callously disregarded the moment she is less than mutant proves the mettle of Magneto's character beyond doubt and is, I think, one of the best scenes in the movie.

    Again, I'll agree that the writing was crap and I honestly could have written a better film than what we've been presented, but I think the misogyny take is an over-reaction. Cuz really, sometimes crap writing is really only crap writing.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 5:04 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    The thing is, bad writing and sexism often go hand in hand. Because bad writing resorts to cliche, and institutionalized sexism births these cliches.

    Yeah, you can give reasons and counter arguments for each example. They're perfectly reasonable. But it's the combination that kills it.

    The fact that no woman aside from Jean and her stereotypical rage at the end, or Kitty, who gets no real emotional development at all even remotely accomplishes anything useful.

    The fact that the men get the primary emotional development, and have the same misfortunes of the women but are shown going above them. For example: both Angel and Rogue have very good reasons to go for the cure, Angel for fitting in and his father, Rogue for touching people and Bobby. Angel refuses, nobly, in a visually striking scene. Rogue goes along with it, sacrificing her power off camera. Magneto and Mystique are both depowered, but we only see *him* getting his powers back at the end. Storm and Logan both kill in this movie, but Logan does it as an act of sacrifice and love. Storm does it out of rage. Xavier, Magneto and Jean are the most powerful mutants on the planet, but where the former two are autonomous leaders, she's there to be *used* and out of control.

    The women are treated interchangeably. Callisto's in Mystique's role from the previous movies. Kitty is in Rogue's. Even if it makes more sense plot wise, when you add it all up...

    It's bad writing AND it's anti-feminist/sexist/misogynistic/whichever word you choose to use.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 5:19 PM, Blogger The Dane said…

    Wait, you liked the angel scene? :P That was one of several points where I groaned inwardly and feared that I'd never be able to get my companions into a comic book movie ever again. And you should remember that out of the million and three people that Wolverine killed, only one of them was out of sacrifice.

    I suppose they could have shown Mystique regaining her powers, but they already used her in the little end-of-movie trick in the first one. I wouldn't have used her for that in X3 myself. Magneto may actually have been both the best and the right choice if they were going to do that scene (a scene I don't think they should have done).

    I'll absolutely agree that bad writing and misogyny do often go together. It's kinda tautological though because since most writing is baaaaad, bad writing goes along with most everything. In think case, I think that it was likely just bad writing by itself. Heh, I think this is another one of those cases where we'll just amiably disagree because I think your evidence is too sparse, but you don't think my counter-arguments outweigh your evidence, which I think is sparse, which you think is strong enough, but I think... :)

    In any case, I very much enjoy reading your perspective on things even if I might occasionally think you're wrong wrong wrong. (This time, I only thought you were wrong, not wrong wrong wrong.)

    p.s. you type hell of fast.

     
  • At May 29, 2006 5:22 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    I didn't actually like the scene. It was cheesy and lame. But it was visually striking and a sign of defiance. Rogue didn't even get that.

    Maybe the DVD will have more. I might rent it. Once.

    :-) And that's okay, people disagree.

    (As for the typing: thank you, I try.)

     
  • At May 29, 2006 6:42 PM, Anonymous Toby S. said…

    Hella fast. If you're going to use that abominable Californian idiom instead of the far superior "wicked", it's spelled "hella".

    My mutant power is obnoxious spelling correction!

     
  • At May 30, 2006 4:41 AM, Blogger JP said…

    I hated how creepy they made Xavier with that whole 'erecting boundaries in Jean's mind' thing.

    I hated how Jean went from Xavier's pawn to Magento's. At that point, don't you think Pheonix mighta wan ted to blaze her own trail, maybe take over Magneto's gang?


    I hated how they just disntegrated Cyclops without giving him time to do anything but be angsty and shed a tear or two. If anyone's going to be angsty and brushing off offers of recnciliation, shouldn't it be 'outsider' Logan?

    I hated how Beast was just telegraphed in, esp after the brilliant casting.

    I seriously didn't mind Wolverine basically being the ipso facto leader because I never liked Berry's Storm, but I can see how that was odd, too. Just because wolvey is a star and Jackman is pretty doesn't mean you set someone up as Xavier's succesor and then undermine with actual plot development.

    I loved all the fight scenes, all the scenes where Magneto or Storm use their formidable powers to the fullest.

    In fact, I thought the whole movie was well paced, well shot, and with the exception of Halle Berry, well acted. Dunno why, I just don't cotton to her screen presence. Just wish the script and plot wer better, but I think all the flaws were found in the earlier films too.

    Still, I must confess I'm not a huge X-Men fan (blame the comics in the past 4 years on that with their incessant teeny soap-opera but With Mutant Powers schtick) and the X franchise has been the one I've enjoyed the most at the movies so far. *Enjoyed*, in terms of of sheer glued-to-the-seat 'hell yea' moments.

    If the FF movie had delivered quite as monumental action sequences, it would've nudged these movies out.

     
  • At May 30, 2006 4:43 AM, Blogger JP said…

    Also, I'm beginning to feel that a better term for the sort of thing this movie does is gynoagnosticism, rather than misogyny, if I may coin a rather awaward term. Simple meaning - writers who dunno what to do with women.

     
  • At May 30, 2006 4:46 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Aw, I thought the final action scene against Doom was great. And F4 had better emotion. Sure the Reed-Sue-Doom triangle was flat (I blame her, the other two did try), but the Reed-Ben friendship and the Reed-Doom rivalry were the core of the film and they made it real good. :-)

    Xavier's always creepy, but this was...beyond that. Beast was a brilliant choice though, I thought I'd hate it, but he actually was the best in the film for me.

    "gynoagnosticism". I think I like that term a lot. :-)

     
  • At May 30, 2006 12:15 PM, Blogger The Dane said…

    Toby, I know I know. No need to correct me. Not such a fan of "hella," I was using the ironical derivation popularized (at least in my spheres) by Jeph Jacques in his comic, Questionable Content. Your correction was rather cute though, so thanks ;)

     
  • At June 07, 2006 1:36 AM, Blogger notintheface said…

    The sexism argument, like in many cases on message posts, is a few parts dead-on and a few parts jive.

    The dead on:

    Phoenix following Magneto's orders and not doing much else (despite momentarily threatening him mid-movie).

    Storm being leader but Wolvie giving the orders. (Yes, we know Hugh Jackman is a more charismatic actor then Halle in this movie. Hell, the X-Mansion ottoman is a more charismatic actor in this movie than Halle. But still, the comics' Storm had more leadership skills than Wolverine and was as good a leader as the comics' Scott.)

    Dark Phoenix not getting a real personality.

    The jive:

    Rogue getting depowered off-camera: I think this was not sexism but instead an attempt at some last-minute suspense, the "did she or didn't she" question.

    Rogue and Kitty didn't get enough development? In this movie, they can join the club! Few of the characters did. That's what happens when you stupidly try to compress what should have been two 2+ hour movies into one 100 minute one.

    And that whole "female archetype" argument is flawed because the same thing happened to male characters in this series. Callisto replaced Mystique. Kitty replaced Rogue. Beast replaced Nightcrawler. Juggernaut replaced Sabertooth. Pyro replaced Toad. You get the idea.

    And you've got to admit that Cyclops' character got jobbed worse in X3 than all the female characters combined.

    The writing on this one was weak, but the action barely redeemed it. There were many cool moments. Seeing "Big Chris" as the Juggernaut was one of the best, especially his fight with Kitty.

    And BTW, you forgot to mention the biggest redeeming element in the Fantastic Four movie: the Ben and Johnny relationship. Michael Chiklis and especially Chris Evans RULED in the FF movie, even if few other things did.

     
  • At June 07, 2006 1:46 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    :-) Evans was great as Johnny, though the character irritates me. He did in the comics too, so that's a good sign.

    The Ben and Reed relationship was the core of the movie for me. Everything they did in that movie was for each other. And the little moments, like Reed picking up the engagement ring for Ben on the bridge.

    I don't care that the fiancee being there made no damn sense at all, that scene made me tear up.

     

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