Pretty, Fizzy Paradise

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Monday, July 03, 2006

Feelin' DAMN powerful.



That pretty much shows how I'm feeling right now.

Ragnell and I have been spying our progress reports on a few different forums and the replies have been interesting.

There's been helpful suggestions, thoughtful disagreements and explosive virulence regarding the topic.

We've been accused of taking part in "fanboy masochism". We've been accused of exercising adolescent rape fantasies. We've been accused of "raping" someone's childhood. And in one case we were even accused of endangering comics themselves by giving the censorship advocates fodder. And that's just in one thread!

This is amazing!

I mean, all we've got right now is a set of incomplete, unverified notes posted on blogs. And somehow they're provoking such fuss!

I mean...*our blogs* are apparently important enough to *endanger comics*?! Now that's an ego boost, if *I've* ever heard one.

More seriously, this knee-jerk reaction indicates that we're on the right track. If the idea gets this sort of venom during the planning stages then I can't *wait* to see what happens when everyone sees the finished product.

19 Comments:

  • At July 03, 2006 11:20 PM, Blogger Centurion said…

    one word: nice

     
  • At July 04, 2006 1:07 AM, Blogger Sagejester said…

    cheers. keep up the good work. it has been great to read all the perspectives you two have compiled and contributed together.

     
  • At July 04, 2006 1:12 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Thanks guys! That makes me happy really. We're not doing this project to spoil anyone's fun. We're just doing it because well, honestly, we think it warrants doing.

     
  • At July 04, 2006 1:39 AM, Blogger James Meeley said…

    One thing I've learned, in my near 20 years as a part of this industry (be it in retailing, commentary, or merely just a fan), when you bring up things people don't like or agree with, you can bank on feeling the verbal heat (no GL pun intended).

    Of course, that's also about all you'll end up getting, as despite the "outcry", those doing the screaming really seem to have little interest in doing anything else but that, it seems.

    Just don't let naysayers force you to stifle your feelings. If you feel it's worth saying, then it should be said. After all, it's just words. Nothing to get overly excited about, right? ;)

     
  • At July 04, 2006 1:53 AM, Anonymous Ununnilium said…

    Awesome!

     
  • At July 04, 2006 5:13 AM, Blogger The Video Store Girl said…

    For some crazy reason I always think that comic fandom has outgrown this sort of knee-jerk reaction to feminist sentiments -- until I read the sometimes hysteric responses to your postings. And the reason for the backlash is that they (and we all) can feel that you're changing something. The change is in the air. It can't be denied. Keep up the good fight.

     
  • At July 04, 2006 5:16 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    James: Thanks for the support :-)

    Ununnilium: Yeah!

    Valerie: I don't know about any changes in the air, really. But it's definitely an ego boost! :-)

     
  • At July 04, 2006 7:01 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Wow, didn't even consider that one about giving fodder to the censors. Hasn't that already happened what with the seduction of the innocent and all?

    As an argument for you to stop it's a wee bit silly, albeit true.

     
  • At July 04, 2006 7:05 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    The thing about that is it's like closing the barn door after the horses are free.

    Censors will be mad about comics regardless of what we do. Like I say there, all they need is to go to the wrong message board thread or the wrong comics panel and they'll have all sorts of ammunition.

    Censoring ourselves out of fear of the censors is utterly ridiculous.

    Besides, we're just pointing out what's already there.

     
  • At July 04, 2006 8:05 AM, Anonymous Phil said…

    On one of the points that people seem to have been directing at you:

    Yes, it's difficult to write or draw a scene in which a woman is tortured, if such is necessary to your plot, without at least creating suspicions of rape. Even if you avoid any of the sort of overt sado-eroticisation of the scene that annoys people in current comics. Because people tend to assume that if a woman's tortured, sexual assault will be a natural part of it.

    The only problem is - if you look at the real world, it is pretty inevitable, but it happens to men who get tortured as well. So if you want to do gritty realism with your female characters getting brutally tortured, lets see more sexual assaults on male characters by villains. And then look at the fan reactions...

    It would be interesting, when the male victims list is complete, to look at the frequency of portrayals of sexual assault on men by men or by women. I would suspect, based on the examples I know about, that when it's by men it's generally portrayted as something awful, but when it's by women it's tossed away as a "boy, a wish a hot chick would 'rape' me" joke.

     
  • At July 04, 2006 9:58 AM, Blogger Karen Strang said…

    I've been going through the same thing over at my Livejournal. I say something which, to me, is simply stating an obvious fact, like, "a certain TV show doesn't present a very complete picture of womankind," and the men act like I not only want to take away their toys, but I also somehow have the power to do so. The levels of threat and hatred I inspire in these men is truly astonishing.

     
  • At July 04, 2006 4:06 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    phil: I think there are definitely interesting trends to examine here. :-) That's the sort of thing we're hoping this list helps with.

    karen: It's pretty amazing isn't it. :-)

     
  • At July 04, 2006 9:57 PM, Anonymous Ununnilium said…

    I wouldn't worry about the censors. They're all focusing on video games right now.

     
  • At July 05, 2006 6:07 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The thing about that is it's like closing the barn door after the horses are free.

    Censors will be mad about comics regardless of what we do. Like I say there, all they need is to go to the wrong message board thread or the wrong comics panel and they'll have all sorts of ammunition.

    Censoring ourselves out of fear of the censors is utterly ridiculous.

    Besides, we're just pointing out what's already there.


    Yeah, i agree. But the thing i was thinking about is that i bet this'll get a lot of attention the more it goes on and if i was a censor then not only would it already be a subject out there but i'd also have free fodder.

    But i totally agree, censoring oneself for fear of being censored is very silly indeed.

    If nothing else it'll be interesting to see where this leads... Keep it up! :>

     
  • At July 05, 2006 6:10 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Yeah, I'll admit. Sometimes I worry a bit about that. But forewarned is fore-armed. Or something. At least we won't be surprised.

    And thanks!

     
  • At July 05, 2006 11:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    we were even accused of endangering comics themselves by giving the censorship advocates fodder.

    Good grief. Shooting the messenger, anyone?

    Keep up the good work. I can only hope that when the list is compiled and made public, it'll make writers realize that using sexual assault as a plot device is a tired, hackneyed tactic which needs to be retired.

     
  • At July 05, 2006 11:15 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    I don't necessarily think it needs to be completely retired. I mean, there are women (and men) out there who truly have suffered, and might actually get comfort at seeing characters survive and move past horrific things.

    And it can make for a powerful story.

    But I'd personally not mind it so much if it were used much less often.

    Or for that matter if writers stuck only to subtext for that sort of thing for a while. Using subtext or implication can actually be *more* powerful, because of tone and atmosphere, and it's not nearly as overplayed.

    Mostly I'm of the opinion that when used, the primary goal should be to use it *well*.

     
  • At July 06, 2006 4:15 PM, Anonymous ben said…

    Or even just giving the female characters in question the chance to actually *deal* with the situation, fully, on an emotional level afterward. Sue Dibny being the obvious example. They took her own trauma away from her - they could have explored her healing afterward, even had her become frustrated with being the "defenseless wife," (even if she's never really been that way, she might feel she was, during her lowest points) and wanting to do something to change that.

    The lists are wonderful, no matter what people tell you - they aren't "endangering" comics, they're capable of *helping* comics a great deal toward growing up (actual growing up, not grim-and-gritty maturation).

     
  • At July 06, 2006 4:24 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    *nod* though to be fair, I don't actually think Identity Crisis did that poorly with it. As much the victim should *always* be first priority in real life, the story for the mini was about the paranoia and extreme reactions of the heroic community.

    I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I think it could have been done *better* mind you, but I also think the main bulk of IDC's story was incredibly compelling.

    I was more pissed by the awful JLA vs Deathstroke fight. What the hell was *that*?!

    That said, if they ever went with a story in 52 or a mini later or something flashing back to that time from Sue's (and Ralph's even...we never really got *that* much reaction from him either) perspective so we could glimpse her recovery.

    But in IDC, which wasn't as much emotion driven as action-reaction driven, I don't think it'd have worked. The momentum would be shot.

    And thanks for the support!

     

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