Pretty, Fizzy Paradise

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Saturday, August 05, 2006

Catwoman Paternity Thoughts.

Personally I think Helena Kyle's going to end up Bruce Wayne's daughter. Even if there's some sort of twist in Catwoman, a few years in they're going to pull a Grayson-on-Barbara Gordon and restore the correct relationship. It's too much in the public consciousness to make her anyone but Bruce's kid, I think.

It's not just Earth 2, honestly. The Birds of Prey tv show also established a Huntress as Batman's daughter. I really don't think they'd be able to screw with that for long.

It wouldn't be necessarily a bad thing to go in that direction, even if it's not terribly surprising. In fact it could be awesome for one very important reason:

The possibility of a future set, debatable continuity story in which the daughter of Batman has to fight against her evil half brother, grandson of Ra's Al Ghul*.

And that would be a great great thing.

(*Provided of course that Morrison's not pulling a trick on us. :-))


  • At August 05, 2006 2:22 AM, Blogger Steve Pheley said…

    The main reason I tend to think the baby isn't Bruce's is because when he dropped by and paid for her college tuition or whatever, it came across much more like "here's a gift from mommy's friend/ex" than "here's Batman not being a deadbeat dad".

    Of course, there's always the possibility that Bruce is the father and doesn't know it, but it seems to me that if there were the slightest chance it was his kid, he wouldn't rest until he was sure one way or the other.

  • At August 05, 2006 4:17 AM, Blogger Brandon said…

    Maybe her and the Earth-2 Batman got it on during the Crisis, before he was all ghosted up. Or was he always a ghost? I'm still confused about that JSA issue.

    Ted Grant's too much of a father figure to Selena and Slam Bradley's too obvious. Jason Todd would just be too creepy. I personally would like to see Crazy Quilt as the father.

    No one expects Crazy Quilt. No one. Mwahahahahah!

  • At August 05, 2006 5:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    She's Catwoman, she steals things. So why wouldn't she decide that stealing a sperm sample without the donor being aware wasn't the greatest theft of all? So she collected something to remind her of Bruce while the affair was going on, and six months later, peeved at being ignored while he's on his cruise, goes out and finds the turkey baster.

    That's my twist, and I'm sticking with it no matter what canon says.

  • At August 05, 2006 5:57 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    steve: It's funny that we could read the scene so differently, because that's the scene that convinced me Batman knew she was his daughter.

    The education and especially the bit with the toy really seemed like a young, confused father to me. All "I want to make this right but I don't know how." The distance is because of Selina's wishes but the gifts, and really the awkward way he presents them really did make me think that he wanted some kind of relationship with the baby but doesn't know how.

    brandon: I really doubt, with the single multiverse, that the baby's father is E-2 Batman. That'd be impossible to explain. Besides, I'm pretty sure he'd still have been dead quite a bit pre-Crisis and thus long before the time needed for Selina's conception.

    Slam's way too much of a father figure for me, just like Ted. Moreso as at least Ted has had a sexual relationship with her, or is implied to have at least.

    But honestly, I really do think that if they make it anyone but Bruce, it'll be retconned back in a few years anyway. These things have ways of righting themselves.

    I have to admit though I'm not happy with the "Who's the daddy?" aspect of the plot. Selina can't just have a kid with another character, it has to be a big deal. And the mystery means that we end up relating all of her relationships with male characters based on whether or not she'd sleep with them.

    (That and while I'm not particularly a fan of the E2 Huntress, I do think that using her name and giving the character a different parentage would be very upsetting to her fans. Kind of like when Barbara was portrayed as Jim Gordon's niece. A detail like parentage shouldn't be overlooked. If they didn't want to remind us of that relationship, they should have chosen a different name, I think. But I admit I'm tetchy. :-))

  • At August 05, 2006 6:38 AM, Anonymous Flidget Jerome said…

    I'm against the idea mainly because it peeves me. Earth II Helena was Catwoman's daughter as well as Batman's and I want Selena to have equal rights to that history even without having used Bruce's little swimmers.

    I also can't buy the idea of Bruce being a distant father and standing back and letting Selene handle everything. He's got a ton of kids already and he's been a bit of a control freak to all of them (which is the main reason I think it's safe to assign her father to someone else and not risk a retrocon later).

    But, really, my main objection is that this would put Bruce five kids over Ollie's four and no one should have more brats running around than Green Arrow.

  • At August 05, 2006 8:27 AM, Blogger Zaratustra said…

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  • At August 05, 2006 8:32 AM, Blogger Zaratustra said…

    I was going to say Wildcat as a suitably outlandish alternative, but two people already said it.

    So, uh. The Question. He impregnated Catwoman then promptly fled to Kahndaq. There.

  • At August 05, 2006 8:57 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    anon: Hee, I could see it!

    flidget: That's just it though, Helena was *both* Selina and Bruce's daughter. This Helena is Selina's daughter, she *has* the rights to the history regardless.

    But the father is important too. And if she weren't named Helena I wouldn't care. But she is. So if Bruce and Selina's claim on that legacy is *equal*, one can't deny his fatherhood either.

    And none of Bruce's kids are his by blood, (except for Tim) they all had no one else. Helena has her mother. Bruce has never cared for an infant. I can't see the distance staying forever. But right now, I can see him trying to respect her opinion.

    I'm sure Ollie's still got more biological kids anyway. Could always add more anyway. :-)

    Zaratustra: Heh. I admit though, I'm a traditionalist. As long as that baby is Helena, I think her dad should be Bruce.

    And also because I really want that future story of Helena vs. Ibn. Because a heroine and her evil older half brother/grandson of Ra's al Ghul is an awesome fight that must happen

  • At August 05, 2006 12:13 PM, Blogger 100LittleDolls said…

    While I also don't really like the whole "who's Selina's baby daddy" aspect of the current books, I love how after the first issue after the baby was introduced I stopped caring.

    I admit that I really want Bruce to be the father, but what's now important to me is seeing Selina as a woman who's embracing motherhood, but also still embracing herself. I was so worried that her personality would would be written differently and that all the kickass aspects of Selina would be overshadowed, but so far, I haven't been disappointed at all.

    In fact, I'm still surprised that Catwoman is my current favorite comic.

  • At August 05, 2006 3:05 PM, Anonymous Ununnilium said…

    I really hope so, but I'm worried the higher-ups will say "oh, having a kid makes Batman seem too old" and nix it.

    ...and then I remember that Talia's Bat-spawned son is being reintroduced to continuity over in the main book, and I perk up.

  • At August 05, 2006 3:07 PM, Anonymous Ununnilium said…

    Also, if you have Helena vs. Ib'n, you have to include Terry McGuiness.

  • At August 05, 2006 3:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Hey what about Catman?

  • At August 05, 2006 3:53 PM, Anonymous Flidget Jerome said…

    Given that Ibn isn't actually a name in Arabic, just a prefix, I am hoping that his real name does turn out to be Terry. He was adopted out at first, after all, so it wouldn't be that hard to work in and it'd be a lovely nod to the animated series.

    Catman would be a GREAT choice for the dad. He really does seem to be set on having kids, after all. Plus he does have a history with Selena too.

    And this doesn't have anything to do with the discussion but . . . Kalinara, what's your reaction to Sand's new classic-flavoured yet tragically non-bondage costume?

  • At August 05, 2006 6:04 PM, Anonymous Vincent J. Murphy said…

    "pull a Grayson-on-Barbara Gordon and restore the correct relationship"

    What's so correct about that relationship?

  • At August 05, 2006 10:50 PM, Blogger Ferrous Buller said…

    Of course, it could always be the writer is using the name as a red herring, just to mislead people like you.

    It's what I'd do, given half a chance, but I love screwing with people that way.


  • At August 06, 2006 1:50 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    100: There's that. :-) I'm enjoying that too. But I think having Bruce as a dad would just add more complexity rather than take anything away from it.

    ununnilium: *nod* The Ibn (hopefully not his real name) thing is very promising. :-)

    Terry could be her Robin!

    Flidget: Hee!

    I still think with the name, there's a symbolism in returning that one Earth 2 element to the DCU. :-) A dose of hope. Kal-L was misguided, but a teeny bit of what he wanted, a teeny bit of optimism in the form of brief connection between Bruce and Selina coming back means a lot.

    As to the costume. I'm intrigued. :-) The skeleton/shroud element is interesting!

    vincent: Basically I'm referring to how somewhere along the way Barbara ended up written as Jim Gordon's niece instead of daughter. Devin Grayson fixed that (in an admittedly cumbersome way). I figure they'll do it again.

    Ferrous: :-) Could be. I hope not though. It'd mean a lot if it were true.

  • At August 06, 2006 5:06 PM, Anonymous Ununnilium said…

    IIRC, Barbara = niece came from Batman: Year One. Or so I've heard, anyway, I've never actually read it.

  • At August 06, 2006 9:09 PM, Anonymous Nobody said…

    I have a hard time believing that DC would approve simultaneous stories that reveal two different children of Bruce, so I think either Talia's son or Selina's daughter (if not both) will turn out not to be his.

    But I think it would be awesome if they both ARE Bruce's kids. It's like picking up the Bryan Singer guantlet and saying, "You thought Superman having a five-year-old would be a big deal? We'll give Batman TWO kids, ten years apart!"

  • At August 06, 2006 11:44 PM, Anonymous Ununnilium said…

    Yes! Which I also enjoyed, BTW. (Just saw Superman Returns last night.) Yay Kid Legacy!

  • At August 07, 2006 12:08 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    ununnilium: Actually, I think in Year One, Jim was revealed to have a baby named Barbara. The age made it impossible to be adult Barbara, so steps had to be taken.

    Come to think of it, I wonder where the baby is...maybe his ex is raising her...or Superboy punched her out.

    nobody: Yep! And they could fight!

  • At August 07, 2006 4:05 PM, Anonymous Ununnilium said…

    Ah. Okay. @.@v File that in the same folder as Selina-as-prostitute.


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