Pretty, Fizzy Paradise

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Damnit Dixon (and Company)

Okay, so Scans Daily's got a scene from the Newsarama preview of Batman and the Outsiders up here. I've swiped and re-uploaded it for my own convenience.

(Click for a larger image.)

Okay. Um, I know I'm incredibly behind with Outsiders (I hadn't bothered with anything past the Checkmate crossover) but...what the fuck?

I'm not actually talking about the homophobic implications in the way Dixon's got that dialogue working. "Special"? Even if that's not intended to be insulting, a character like Batman would know full well how a character like Anissa would take that. It's pretty fucking offensive. Thanks, Dixon.

That's not actually my issue here today, though. My issue here is something that may or may not actually be Dixon's fault but it pisses me off nonetheless.

Why the hell is Anissa Pierce being treated like a fucking incompetent? Has she been spun around and replaced by Stephanie Brown when I wasn't looking? This is the girl that Nightwing, in an admittedly dickishly out of character move, sent in to a dictator to distract/seduce/spy and she performed the job as well as anyone could have expected. (Boy I would have liked to see Jefferson find out about THAT bit, and take it out of not-Dick's hide.)

(Devon blogged about that bit last year if you need the memory refresher.)

Anissa's been on this team for two years now! She started as a newbie, sure, but she's never been incompetent. She definitely pulls her own weight. She's a character who defied her very, VERY formidable ex-hero father to be a hero herself, undertook dangerous missions and while she had a lot to learn, she was learning it!

I give Winick a lot of guff about what I see as a general trend of poor portrayals of female characters, but I really really liked Anissa. I wasn't much of a fan of how her relationship with Grace was introduced (I liked their chemistry and wanted them to get together, but the execution didn't do much for me) but I can't fault him for creating one of the few likably portrayed characters on that team.

I didn't read the versus issue, I'd imagine she lost. And maybe I'm misremembering the run of Outsiders, maybe she did suck, but who the hell is Batman to kick her off a team that she's served on and bled for for two years. I get that this is supposed to be a redux of Batman and the Outsiders, but these people are not his fucking team. They existed LONG before he got involved.

And you know what? Grace SHOULD get a say in whether Anissa's on a team. "Special relationship" or not. Grace was ALSO a member of that team for two years or so before Batman took over. Hell, Batman wouldn't have any ties to the team at all if Roy didn't swipe his old crony-group's name for it. And his old sidekick.

But yeah. Grace is a member of that team. She's been a member of that team for longer than Batman's been running it. She, and the other teammates, should be the ones choosing who they fight beside. Not some dick in a batsuit.

And I get that this is set-up, I do. Anissa's going to be part of the team, and very likely, this is going to end up some kind of early Tim Drake redux, wherein the plucky young sidekick denied by Batman, defies him to save her friends, and thus proves herself to him.

I get that.

But I'm still annoyed. Because Tim did have to prove himself to Batman. He was inheriting Jason's costume and Dick's name, but Batman had every right to judge his readiness for the role. That he wasn't really ever going to give him a fair shake is beside the point, it was still Tim's job to prove himself worthy of the role.

Anissa isn't trying to prove herself worthy of being Batman's sidekick. She's going to end up "proving herself worthy" of the team she's been on for years. And Batman's humiliating her further by making her watch, to show her why she can't do the job, as a favor to her father.

Damnit. I haven't been so irritated by a page of a comic preview in a long time.

I guess I'm just annoyed because I really really like Anissa. I do. I like that she's smart and educated, that she went to college (wasn't she pre-med or something?). I like that she's not one of the legion of young white blond girl superheroes that are nigh interchangeable appearance wise. (I like those characters, sure, but if you consider how many active non-limboed white, blond, blue-eyed teen/just-post teenaged girl heroes versus how many active non-limboed non-white girl heroes of similar age we have, it's pretty fucked up.) I like that she's the daughter of a hero who wants better for her...even if we never had any indication that she existed before Winick decided to drop her in. I like that she made a promise to her father to not take up superheroing until after she finished college and then the very day after her last course, she put on the wig and costume. I like that she did her best and was fairly competent and sensible aside. I like that she's a lesbian, or bisexual, even if I thought Winick played it more for titilation. It's still nice to see a wider range of sexuality portrayed.

I like the wig too. I've always liked when superheroines wore wigs, because hair color/style/length does do a lot when it comes to the shape of the face and what people see when they look at you. And that color/length is so eye-catching that it's even more likely to distract attention away from the face.

I didn't like a lot of her plotlines, but I always liked the character herself, so I really really don't like seeing her in this sort of undignified and humiliating position. Hmph.


  • At November 13, 2007 2:39 AM, Blogger Unknown said…

    From the looks of the one shots and early publicity photos, it looks like the plan was to not have Thunder on the team at all before Dixon came in. Weird.

  • At November 13, 2007 2:42 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Does seem that way.

    On one hand, I like Thunder, so I'm glad she'll be there.

    On the other, I really think there's a better way to write her back in rather than having Batman be such an insulting dick trashing everything she's contributed to the team.

    So. Urked.

  • At November 13, 2007 2:57 AM, Blogger lostinube said…

    They could have just had her trailing the team in the shadows (perhaps being fed info by Grace) and then have her save the day when the entire team is down with the prerequisite Batman line of "Do that again and you're fired" but with a Bat-smirk at the end (showing that he knew she was there all the time and wanted her to prove herself). Cheesy but I thought we were supposed to be done with the Batdickery?
    I hope Thunder makes the team although it would make it seem like DC's just jamming a bunch of minority female characters into the same book ala Marvel's Heroes for Hire (although I may be exaggerating. I'm not entirely up on the make up of all the teams).

  • At November 13, 2007 3:25 AM, Blogger Unknown said…

    I don't like Grace though. She just seems like a handfull of horrible cliche's were thown together. But actually, if you read the one shots and last issue of Outsiders, Batman was even more of a dick and was basically screaming at her for trying to be on the team. The fact that this is an improvement is saddening

  • At November 13, 2007 4:57 AM, Blogger LurkerWithout said…

    From what I remember of the Vs. one-shot (with Thunder and Martian Manhunter) they had to deal with a rogue New God. And Thunder basically won the challenge, but because she boom tubed the guy back to Apokalips (where the New Gods killer ambushed him) Batman declared her as losing. Hell, even J'onn in his I'm a Brooding Weirdo mode agreed she won. But hey Batdickery!

    I so wish that the various people on the Outsiders, when they learned their team had been handed over to Bats, had just said FUCK THAT. And then, I don't know, kept being the Outsiders. They could have been sponsered by Geo-Force. Who was actually ON the original team longer than Bats...

    Plus then he wouldn't be wasted as a joke on JLA. And maybe Boomerang wouldn't have gotten shanghaid into the new Suicide Squad...

    Gods, this is all so freaking stupid. No wonder I'm holding steady at a single main DC ongoing and a pair of minis...

  • At November 13, 2007 5:07 AM, Blogger Michael Mastropietro said…

    Actually Lurker, The ARE bringing in Geo Force. and thank god for it

  • At November 13, 2007 5:47 AM, Blogger Ragnell said…

    Might be a plot point where Batman's actively trying to discourage her from superheroics for her father's sake.

  • At November 13, 2007 5:59 AM, Blogger Darcy said…

    Lurker - yep. I admit I haven't been following the Outsiders, but I bought that issue because Grayven was in it. I seem to remember the possible outcomes of him ending up on Apokolips were that Darkseid would kill him, he'd kill Darkseid, or the New God killer would kill one or both of them. Seemed like a pretty good plan.

    Batman did come across as totally unreasonable and a dickhead about it. What did he *think* was going to happen on Apokolips? Also, how ruthless are they meant to be anyway? (I'm guessing they're not allowed to actually kill)

  • At November 13, 2007 7:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    This is the most interesting Thunder has been in a while. In the last few issues of Outsiders she was just..there. I know she's been on the Outsiders for some time but this is Batman. This is a guy who works with Wonder Woman, Superman, Martian Manhunter. Compared to them Thunder is lacking. And as you noted yourself this is probably setting up Thunder to be the big hero and prove herself to Batman(not to us). I think Bats doesn't just want someone competent he wants someone he can trust, such as J'onn, Metamorpho, Geo-Force, Katana, Ollie, Batgirl, Catwoman. At the end of the day Thunder probably will be that person.

    As for the "special" comment, I think people are reading way too much into it. Dixon is a professional and as far as I know his views(whatever they might be) did not show up in his stories. People didn't start talking about it before the interview. Why would he start now?

  • At November 13, 2007 7:53 AM, Blogger Flidget Jerome said…

    I still have no clue as to why this is even happening.

    Does anyone have fond memories of the original Batman and the Outsiders? Everything I've ever heard of it makes it sound about as grating and implausible as this is.

  • At November 13, 2007 8:41 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Kwaku: I would find that "special" comment offensive regardless of who wrote the issue.

    Dixon's interview(s) are immaterial. (As better evidence might be stories in which his politics or homophobia were QUITE pronounced: i.e. Grifter and Midnighter)

  • At November 13, 2007 9:26 AM, Blogger Rich said…

    I think you're over reading the special comment. Now if it was bolded and italicized I think you might have a point - but its the same way that Batman might needle Nightwing about his special relationship with Barbara. No big deal - Bats is a pain in the ass and a dick.

    But he's a dick to everyone regardless of race, gender or sexual preference.

    And to be fair on Dixon, this was pretty much set up in the Five of a Kind one shots and Outsiders #50.

  • At November 13, 2007 10:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    " Even if that's not intended to be insulting, a character like Batman would know full well how a character like Anissa would take that. It's pretty fucking offensive. Thanks, Dixon."

    Right, because Batman is usually such a gentle, sensitive, and non-offending soul.


  • At November 13, 2007 10:23 AM, Blogger SallyP said…

    Not being much of a Bat fan, I'm not too surprised by his being a jerk. What does surprise me, is that he basically just waltzed in and took over.

    I'm with Lurker. Why didn't they all just tell him to go and !@#$% himself?

    Now, if ALRED was running the Outsiders, I'd actually break down and read it.

  • At November 13, 2007 10:26 AM, Blogger BIG MIKE said…

    1.) Batman would probably refer to any romantic entanglement between heroes as 'special' whether it's gay or straight. That's how he is, and it's a reach to assume homophobia.

    2.) The Outsiders are a bunch of chumps who screw up constantly. He's the goddamn Batman.

    3.) Passing these kinds of judgments based upon preview pages is silly. We have no idea what happens on the next page.

  • At November 13, 2007 10:35 AM, Blogger Seth T. Hahne said…

    You're mad. I can tell.

  • At November 13, 2007 10:43 AM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Mark Engblom:

    I don't actually think Batman's been that much of an asshole for quite a while. I also think, personally, that even when he IS characterized as a jerk, he does not go for openly racist, sexist (well, not modern age at least) or homophobic remarks when there are plenty of non-discriminatory ways of being a jerk available.

    And Mark, while I don't mind if you disagree about the offensiveness of that particular comment, I would like to point out that scorn for my opinion in the comments of my own blog is not likely to endear you to me. Thank you.

    Big Mike:

    I'm guessing you're one of those people who listens to someone react negatively to a movie trailer by saying that we should wait to see the movie to judge. :-)

    As I see it, a preview page is intended to entice someone to read the comic, isn't it?

    Thus it's perfectly valid, IMO, to respond to what annoys me about the preview pages.

    It's true that I don't know what's happening next. However, this scene irritates me significantly to the point where there is absolutely nothing that can follow it up that will make me less irritated barring the revelation that this is some sort of hallucination for one of the characters.

    As I doubt that'll be the case, I feel perfectly obliged to react now.

    And even if that does end up the case, it does not invalidate my own emotional reaction to the preview, nor my right to express such a reaction here at my blog. :-)

  • At November 13, 2007 11:46 AM, Blogger Dorian said…

    It's pretty clear from the context of the scene that the "special" comment is intended to be both a dig at the lesbian and a diminishing of her relationship with her partner. It's not a "real" relationship, it's "special one," like a phase she'll outgrow. There's no "reaching" involved in coming to that conclusion; it's a fairly common code word for the anti-gay right.

  • At November 13, 2007 12:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Obsideon should use the shadow of Bat's cape to give him AND the writers an anal uppercut!!! Not a Joke.

    Bats=jerk yes Bats= bigot HELL NO, sense when is tat in character.

    Bigotry in subtext or implication is STILL bigotry!

  • At November 13, 2007 12:06 PM, Blogger Rob S. said…

    It looks to me that Thunder's going to call him on the "special relationship" comment; I'm interested in where the conversation goes next.

    As for Batman determining who stays and who goes: Wasn't that the point of the 5 one-shots? Wasn't that what was he brought on to do?

    If they Outsiders have decided to give Batman that authority, he has it, and can make roster decisions as he wishes. (It seems like they have, but I don't read the book.) So, in that case, Grace would get as much of a say as Batman wants. Yes, it sucks, but apparently they agreed to it. Or if they didn't, then why the hell are they putting up with any of it?

  • At November 13, 2007 12:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    kalinara said...

    Kwaku: I would find that "special" comment offensive regardless of who wrote the issue.

    That's where we disagree. But what fun would the world be if there weren't disagreements? I didn't see that as offensive.

    Also at the start of the issue the Outsiders will be Grace, Metamorpho, Catwoman, Thunder, Katana, Martian Manhunter, with Batgirl, Ollie and Geo-Force joining later. Batman has every right to do what he wants because the people on the team see it as his team. When Grace objected in Outsiders #50 Katana came to Batman's defense(sword in hand). They see it as Batman's team.

  • At November 13, 2007 12:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Kwaku: See my last^

  • At November 13, 2007 12:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Needs more Aquaman.

  • At November 13, 2007 1:10 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Rob S/Kwaku:

    My issue is that if you look at the team right before Batman takes over...only Katana, Dick and Metamorpho really had any tie to Batman at all.

    And this is a team known for their independence and renegade status.

    There is no possible reason that I can find remotely plausible that the team would have allowed Dick to bring in Batman. Even if NOW, the team is made up of folks who'd follow him, I still find the scenario he took over amazingly contrived and out of character for everyone.

    (If I felt that they really WOULD pick him, then I'd have no problem with Batman's say outweighing Grace's. But it really didn't work for me.)

  • At November 13, 2007 1:19 PM, Blogger Yonatan said…

    Yeah...I agree with Big Mike. It is a real stretch to assume that Batman using the word special is a code-word for "your dirty sinful lesbianism and you should all burn in hell"

    Batman doesn't like entanglements amongst his agents and defiantly not a bunch of screw-ups like the Outsiders.

    What the word special is the code word for is "I know that you to are in a relationship, I don't really like it, but its not important enough for me to waste more than a few words about it"

    For more information of Batman not liking his agents getting romantically entangled see the various issues of Batgirl (Cassie Cain variety) and Superboy (Kon-el variety) where the two of them attempt to hook up.

    Also see: Robin (Tim Drake variety) and Spoiler, Robin (Dick Grayson variety) and Batgirl (Barbra Gordon variety), Nightwing and Huntress, ect, ect, ect

  • At November 13, 2007 1:28 PM, Blogger kalinara said…


    My problem with it isn't that Batman scorns relationships. That's perfectly in character.

    My problem with it is that, whether you like it or not, to a significant portion of the community, the use of "special" in that context is a specific derogatory insult. Will everyone see it that way? No, of course not. But it's fairly clear from that scene that Thunder DOES see it that way.

    Moreover, I think Batman would know she would see it that way. Thus I think an incredibly offensive AND out of character. Batman doesn't need to resort to homophobia to show general scorn.

    Oh, and by the way, the whole point of "code word" is that it's pre-existing. It means that a small subset of society has seen and experienced that particular "code word" to be used repeatedly and specifically as a diminishment and insult. You can disagree about whether the phrase was meant to be a codeword, but you don't get to redefine what it's code for. THAT is far more of a reach than anything we could say.

    Besides, given Dixon's politics, I find it very difficult to believe that HE is unaware of the implied meaning of his words. YMMV.

  • At November 13, 2007 1:42 PM, Blogger Flidget Jerome said…

    It's not Batman saying the words 'special relationship' that makes it homophobic, out-of-context that could just be his usual dislike of relationships mixing with work rearing up.

    But we have context, we have Thunder in the very same panel repeating the word and looking pretty damn pissed-off about it.

    Chuck Dixon is the writer who decided to affirm Connor Hawke's hetrosexuality by having him make out with his rapist step-mother. He burned up his benefit of the doubt ages ago.

  • At November 13, 2007 3:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Don't know how you feel about this in a CBR interview Dixon said...

    "I'm familiar with everyone on the team except Grace and Thunder," continued Dixon. "But I'm finding my way along with them and their scenes are becoming among my favorites to write."

    He also said.."Thunder's here, but in an unofficial capacity,"
    Anyway the interview is on CBR. What are your thoughts on that?

  • At November 13, 2007 3:04 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    My thoughts are that I'll believe it when I see it.

    The fact that Batman's got a bit of dialogue that seems clearly intended to be read as homophobic (or at least, that THUNDER is fairly clearly hearing as homophobic) is not making me inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Particularly not after the Connor Hawke or Grifter/Midnighter fiascos. Maybe he'll settle in and write them well, I'll be glad to be wrong, but right now...signs aren't looking good.

  • At November 13, 2007 3:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I gotta say I'm one of those guys who is willing to give Dixon some latitude because of all the entertainment that he had provided in the previous years, and because of the reasons you have stated in your post, but Dixon is on shaky ground here. As much of a prick that Batman can be, his verbal attacks have always been on a personal level, and not on general racism, homophobia, etc. So for me that particular dig was out of character.
    It's still a wait-an'-see situation for me.

  • At November 13, 2007 3:45 PM, Blogger zhinxy said…

    I dotake Batman's "special" as being the sort of thing he'd say to just about anybody when he's got a burr up his butt.

    However, I think Anissa's irritation is probably meant to be a depiction of her as "oversensitive"

    It seems like Batman's been delibertately set up to say something that could be taken the wrong way... Just so Anissa could take it the wrong way.

    And that really irks me.

    Then again, I've been seeing this Batman - Anissa conflict coming for a while now, and boy was I ever dreading it.

    And now I have a good idea why...

    It's just like you mentioned, kalinara, she doesn't need to prover herself to him, and beyond that, the "gal proving herself to the skeptical Bat" is a tired old creaker of a story that I really don't need to see trotted out yet again.

  • At November 13, 2007 4:57 PM, Blogger Will Staples said…

    Wasn't the whole point of the last two years, from Infinite Crisis to 52 to "Face the Face," that Batman isn't a jerk anymore?

  • At November 13, 2007 6:43 PM, Blogger zhinxy said…

    Wasn't the whole point of the last two years, from Infinite Crisis to 52 to "Face the Face," that Batman isn't a jerk anymore?

    Exactly. Or, at least, not All Jerk All The Time, anymore. What really bugs me is that everytime Batman is written as doing or saying something heinously assholish, there's no shortage of people flocking to say "That's just how he is!" to anybody complaining.

    It just seems to me like a big sign something's wrong here when one of the most iconic heroes of all time can be ridiculously, over-the-top awful, and people who complain about this get told they don't understand the character...

  • At November 13, 2007 7:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Batman wants to take the Outsiders into places where the JLA can't go, regardless of where it places the team regarding laws and boundaries. I'm reading this as him wanting to protect Thunder from the potential consequences of those actions, since she is the daughter of a close ally.

    But, those of you who haven't been reading the series, go back to assuming the worst based on a handful of preview pages... it makes for a lot more interesting conversation.

    And yes, I have very fond memories of the original BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS. Barr & Aparo wrote a very thought-provoking, character-oriented book.

  • At November 13, 2007 7:59 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Stopwatch: You've no idea how glad I am to have your permission. :-)

  • At November 13, 2007 10:05 PM, Blogger LurkerWithout said…

    Its like a gift from the magical internets fairies...

  • At November 13, 2007 11:15 PM, Blogger zhinxy said…

    Ah, but the fairies are capricious, and their gifts are so often more than they seem to mundane eyes... And more trouble than boon...

  • At November 14, 2007 12:20 AM, Blogger Rob S. said…

    Kalinara wrote:

    There is no possible reason that I can find remotely plausible that the team would have allowed Dick to bring in Batman. Even if NOW, the team is made up of folks who'd follow him, I still find the scenario he took over amazingly contrived and out of character for everyone.

    I can't argue with any of that; I don't know most of the characters well enough (I didn't read the book past issue 3, aside from one later issue) well enough to say. But accepting that they *did* do such a thing, I can't say for sure that Batman overstepped his authority in sidelining Thunder.

    I'm actually excited about Dixon picking up the book. (Not excited enough to buy it, but enough to keep my ear to the ground to find out if I might like it.) He writes some great action sequences, and superhero comics need more of them these days. I suspect his handling of Grace and Thunder will be better than some people fear. I don't think we're going to get a bunch of agenda-driven plotlines; I think we'll get decent clandestine superhero action from a guy who may not be completely comfortable writing a couple of his characters.

    Will they be pitch-perfect the way Winick envisioned them? Certainly not. (Fine with me; aside from Barry Ween and Caper, I'm no Winick fan.) I guess I'm just willing to give Dixon the benefit of the doubt, despite his various statements. Because I think, like most people, he wants to do a good job, and that trumps other considerations. Time will tell.

    As for "special relationship," we really have no idea what Dixon's going for in that scene until we see the whole conversation. He might be setting Thunder up to be "oversensitive" - that honestly never occurred to me. However it goes, we'll all be better informed tomorrow.

  • At November 14, 2007 11:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Kalinara: Please Send an email w/ a link to this for me, there are several advocates who I'd like to share this w/ on a proffessional level.

    Also a thought, would it not make more sense for Bruce's unusual strictness and willingness to abide by BL's wish be that he is now trully a father and in the same boat w/ Tim? ex. Dodge and Daemon story arcs? Would that not also have been more understandable & less antagonistic toward Thunder? Afterall Bruces particular vunrability emotionally to childern in danger is EXTREMELY well founded + in character.

    Thanks in advance for passing this on,
    Mr. G. Hanley/GWW
    LCC Special populations Committee Representative

  • At November 14, 2007 12:41 PM, Blogger Dorian said…

    Wow...I can't believe someone is defending Dixon from the charge of gay-baiting by claiming that he's not writing Batman as a homophobe, just writing the lesbian as overly sensitive...

  • At November 14, 2007 2:35 PM, Blogger Rob S. said…

    Turns out we were all wrong: Batman simply didn't know. Which seems preposterous to me, but an non-omniscient Batman seems much better to me than any of the alternatives supposed from the partial preview. We'll see where it goes from there, I guess. (Or those buying it might -- I doubt I'll be doing an in-store flip-thru every month.)

    And Dorian -- I don't think anyone's defending Dixon with the "oversensitive" explanation. Zhinxy introduced the idea, and said it pissed her off. All I said about it was that I hadn't considered that. If Dixon had gone that route, it certainly wouldn't make me happy. Sorry I wasn't clearer about that.

  • At November 14, 2007 4:49 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Rob: Honestly, I call bullshit on that one. I read the issue too, and...

    No. Even assuming that Batman suddenly has a disapproval of close friendships (which seems odd after so many years in the JLA), if he meant close friendships, he would have said so.

    "Special relationship" may or may not be meant to be derogative, but it CLEARLY means something beyond normal, even close, friendship. There is no way someone who speaks as precisely as Batman does would use such an obviously ambiguous term instead of "close friendship."

    This was clearly set up to show Thunder as inexperienced and oversensitive by having her blurt confirmation to something Batman did not know. A far too obvious set up, because, again, that particular language isn't used in that context.

    Besides, we're supposed to believe that, as demonstrative and flirtatious with each other as Grace and Anissa have been since day 1, Batman doesn't know?!

    Sloppy storytelling and a transparent set-up, in my opinion.

  • At November 14, 2007 5:11 PM, Blogger Rob S. said…

    Hey, I agree. Batman's being mischaracterized. He certainly should have known.

    But from what we've seen, he didn't.

    It certainly was a deliberate turn on Dixon's part; I'm just saying that from what we've been shown, it wasn't deliberate on Batman's part. Dixon wanted to move the conversation in that direction, so he had Batman enter it uninformed.

    So yes, the point Dixon may be trying to make is that Thunder isn't cool under stress.

    But I only read three pages or so of the issue, just to see where the scene went. And Batman not knowing was totally unexpected to me -- I don't think anyone assumed that.

    But anyway, I'm tired of trying to defend Dixon. My main point originally was that we didn't know where the scene was going, so we couldn't be sure what he would be saying with it. Now we know, and I don't think it's as bad as many people thought (Batman disapproving of Thunder's relationship with Grace for homophobic reasons).

    Neither is it as good as I'd hoped it would be -- I was really hoping Thunder would lay into him.

    But either way, now we know.

  • At November 14, 2007 5:11 PM, Blogger Rob S. said…

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • At November 14, 2007 5:12 PM, Blogger Rob S. said…

    Oops, duplicate post.

  • At November 14, 2007 5:13 PM, Blogger kalinara said…

    Happens. :-) I'm actually more pissed off by this, myself. So I'm making a new blog post to vent my emotions and why, for me, this makes it worse. :-)

  • At November 15, 2007 4:28 AM, Blogger Ami Angelwings said…

    You know the DC apologists will just trot out the old trope of "Batman's a jerk he did it on purpose, totally in character" thing :\

    It's always used to defend EVERYTHING. "Oh he's a jerk, it's in character". Um.. no.. it's not. XD There's still nuance and differences in how one anti-social person will act from another.


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